[MUSIC] My name is Frederic Donze. I am the director of the European Regional Office of the World Anti-Doping Agency responsible for relations with international federations. I have been working for more than 12 years in the WADA, World Anti-Doping Agency. My background is political science international relations, which has taken me to journalism, written press for about ten years. And then I joined the WADA as director of relations with the media and director of communications. I started in Montreal. I spent about nine years in Montreal, then I came back to Switzerland in Lausanne, which is home for me, that's where I was born, at the beginning of 2010. So for 4.5 years now I've been here responsible for this small bureau, small office, we're a regional office. Seven staff, eight this summer, responsible mainly for relations with sports in general. The IOC, the international federations and others. We work also on an intra-governmental level with European institutions, but our main role is relations with sports in general. >> Can you give us a brief introduction of the World Anti-Doping Agency? >> Well, the World Anti-Doping Agencie's an organization which is fairly original. It's an organization which is international and independent, which was set up at the end of 1999. And it started from a joint initiative of the IOC, which played a significant role. And all of the stakeholders combating doping, governments, laboratories, researchers, and others. All of the people met together in February of 1999 in Lausanne at the first World Conference on Doping in Sports, which was organized by the IOC. And at that time, February 1999, it was decided that an international organization responsible for monitoring, combating, of fighting doping, was a very important to strengthen anti-doping. So just, in a few words, the WADA is the world regulator of anti-doping. We issue the rules in cooperation with all stakeholders of the anti-doping community. And we monitor the work, which is carried out on the ground by those who have signed the code. Whether we're talking about international federations or national anti-doping organizations, organizers of major events, such as the IOC. And we ensure that all these people on the ground fulfill their responsibilities in accordance with the code, which is really the core element from a regulatory point of view in this fight against doping. >> But your links with the IOC, international federations, can you tell us what you do in your cooperation with these organizations? >> Well, the WADA has a dual role. On the one hand, it's a partner. It is cooperating with all of the signatories of the code. On a daily basis, we work with the various sports, with the various countries, with the various institutions as well, to ensure that they are doing their utmost in terms of fighting anti-doping. And when you're talking about the fight against anti-doping, we're not only talking about checks, controls, tests, but everything which is upstream of all this. Prevention, education, awareness, raising for youth as well as the people who are working around the athletes. The second role, aside from this support role, but it is a role which involves monitoring. Our mandate is to monitor conformity with the World Anti-Doping code by the signatories of the code, and we report at a regular interval to our various partners on this. We don't have any power to punish or sanction but our various partners such as the IOC do have this ability to sanction. The IOC, for example can exclude an international federation from participation if it is not fulfilling it's responsibilities in the area of anti-doping. >> But if we talk about prevention, what do you do in terms of prevention? And is it possible to assess or evaluate the effectiveness of prevention? >> Well, first of all, anything you do in the area of prevention it's, I think, pretty clear today that prevention is absolutely critical in terms of the anti-dope the fight against doping. Because if we manage to teach any athletes, young athletes the values, such that they will refuse to dope themselves, then you have won at the outset. We don't have to use enforcement afterwards. The WADA has invested an enormous amount of human resources of the development of programs in the area of prevention. Because when we talk about prevention, it's not only prevention for the athletes themselves. When we talk about prevention of athletes, you have to deal with the various people. Because increasingly we work with social e-learning type tools, but also everyone who is around the athletes, the coaches and so on. Everything that revolves around the athletes. And then we set up programs that are available to our various partners that can then be fine-tuned to the various cultures involved, the various sports and the anti-doping organizations. Now, can we actually make an assessment about the effectiveness of prevention? Well, that's a very difficult question to answer, it's a question of the glass, is it half full or is it half empty? Is it because there's less doping in a certain sport or there's certain countries that we have done a better job in terms of prevention, or were we more effective in terms of detection? There are a number of elements that come out of social science studies. For example, we're looking at financing in the social service projects to better understand the realities. What is behind the motivation for doping? The reasons behind doping, in other words. And we're working increasingly on various actions that can be taken on the basis of research in social sciences specifically. Another element that allows us to judge whether it is effective is what we get from the ground, from the field, in other words. Athletes, they come and tells us, well a few years ago, we didn't know anything about our roles and our responsibilities, nor about our rights in the fight against doping. But today we're better informed, we're in a position to take informed decisions. >> So we can see these links with research social sciences, etc. You have programs for supporting research. Tell us about your links with the research side. >> Well, we have two main research sides. The first one is in social sciences. And then we have a scientific research program that targets detecting the actual substances used. The social science project came after the science project, the first one started in 2005 roughly. And through that program, we finance research projects from a number of different researchers all over the world to come up with some fellowships. Which make it possible to target a number of specific questions about the factors that lead to doping in athletes especially. Now, looking at the other side, scientific research. We're working scientifically more focused. And for many years, the weather research for projects used up about a quarter of the over all budget. The idea is to detect new substances, improve the current detection methods and we are working in this area with the laboratories that are accredited by the WADA and with all researchers who are interested in this area. Now, what about the enforcement aspects, sanctions and so on? In this topic, anti-doping area, what is your role? Once again, let me stress that we are a regulatory agency. We can not sanction in the field. If an athlete such as, for example, in cycling is tested as positive by the UCI, the UCI will be responsible for the sanction Itself, a sanction in accordance with the code. Our role at the WADA, World Anti-Doping Agency, is to be the guardians of the code, the World Anti-Doping Code. That's the key element of the whole apparatus is regularly reviewed every three or four years in the past. Today, it was January 2015 and we went through because they found a consensus in the anti-doping community. We went from a standard sanction, which was roughly two years for a first violation, serious violation of the rules to a sanction of four years. So the enforcement arsenal has become more strengthened, more robust, whilst being careful about situations where someone might have been negligent and violated rule as a result of negligence. But this is the dynamic system that we have. The rules are not set in stone. The rules must adapt to the realities on the ground. It was interesting to see that the review of the code which entered into force on the first of January this year took about two years. More than 4,000 submissions we received from the various stakeholders and there were changes that were fairly significant. No. There was progress adapting to the realities, but are there any other elements which you are focusing on in terms of the main progress that you might have achieved? Well, I think that WADA has been around for about 15 years, and in those 15 years, it has contributed to a very significant change in the world of sports at various levels. On the one hand, I think that there is an awareness today about the [COUGH] issues involved in fighting doping awareness [COUGH] which not only of the athletes themselves but governments as well who see doping as a real public health issue or problem. And I think today we have information which is available to everyone about the various rights, responsibilities, duties in terms of fighting doping. With the course of the last 15 years we have witnessed a very significant improvement of the anti-doping procedures at all levels. In terms of, for example, the detection of forbidden, prohibited substances, then in terms of the sanctions and the professionalism of the process used to manage the results in terms of prevention and awareness. And today, I think we really have a very stable serious base for fighting doping. A lot needs to be done. We can talk about it later. But in terms of the major significant projects, we can also talk about this if you wish, but we are witnessing increasingly an evolution, a change in the fight against doping. Aside from these partnerships and the conventional environments we have increasingly today, partnerships between the anti-doping community and the pharmaceutical industry. For example, the biotechnological industry, we have increasing leap on ships between the anti-doping community and the community which is responsible for enforcement of the law, the police forces, Interpol. We have increasing number of partnerships with the universities for research. And I think that when we talk about the fight against doping or combating doping, if we want it to change, to evolve, it has to be broadened. It has to have additional tools, supplementary tools to be increasingly efficient because, let's not forget that we're here for athletes, to protect the right of an athlete to compete in a healthy environment with no doping at all. Well, is there any resistance? Are there sports that resist this a little more or countries perhaps or governments, which cooperate less than others, perhaps? Well obviously, in any situation you run up against the same thing. You have some, if I can talk about sports organizations and countries. Some are more effective than others, work harder on this problem. But I think today, there is a true understanding and awareness of the importance of the fight against doping. There are difficulties, yes. In some situations, one of them, one of these situations is obviously the fact that fighting doping is not a priority in many areas of the world, because they have many other concerns, economically, politically, socially, so obviously there is work there to support them in that area. On the other hand, there are countries which because of their culture, a culture that goes back to the 80s when we had this cold war in the sporting area or because of sporting reasons where, because of physiological reasons, we do find situations where we do not have today a field that is absolutely fair for sports all over the world. And the goal over the next few years is to move towards an increasing fairness. It has to be a level field, so that an athlete in a particular sport in Switzerland, for example, is dealt with in exactly the same way as an athlete in a different type of sport in a different part of the world. Now about this, among the resistance, sometimes some feel that effects on health are not so important. What are the major challenges? What is at stake in terms of health? Well, yes, obviously health, as I said earlier. Health is extremely important when we're talking about anti-doping because we're here and that's the World Anti-Doping code that stipulates this. We're here to protect the health of athletes. If you look at the three criteria that are involved in the establishment of the prohibition of a substance on the list which is managed by the WADA, it has to fulfill two of the following three criteria. First of all, it has to improve performance. Number two, it has to have the potential of being detrimental to the health of an athlete. And thirdly, it has to have the potential of violating what we call in general, the spirit of the sport. So today, health is a priority, absolute priority in the fight against doping. Many governments commit themselves in this fight for public health reasons. We talk about champions today, but of course champions cause a sort of an emulation, they're examples for the youth. And if an athlete uses substances, the younger people might want to do the same thing, if they're starting on this path. So this is very central. The health element is central to the doping fight now. There's the definition of doping, We hear some criticism about this. It says that the definition of doping is too complex, too complicated. There are products such as cannabis that are on the list that should perhaps not be on that list. Because we're talking about social or recreational drugs and not drugs or substances that are Improving or enhancing performance. Well what we can say is this is a very healthy discussion and debate, it has to continue, this debate. We must have this sort of debate. Today, if we look at the definition, the legal definition of the fight against doping, and what doping is, according to the code, doping is circumventing, is a violation of one of the rules. So in terms of the definition of substances and the determination of the prohibition of a particular substance, that is done through a process that involves consultations throughout the year. Which involves experts from all over the world, which involves as well researchers who meet and who give their opinion, their views. And at the end we get a situation which is a consensus in terms of whether or not a particular substance needs to be prohibited. We do find today people who will say that cannabis, since it doesn't improve sports, but there are people in the same room who will say exactly the opposite that is does enhance performance. So it's a healthy discussion, and that is how it can continue and we can make sure that it fits and adapts itself well to the situation. Another question is geopolitics in sports. We can see that anti-doping is perhaps, works better for the traditional sports organizations and we see that a number of new organizations are emerging with things like Free Fight, X Games. >> [FOREIGN] >> Can we have an effect on the emergence of these new practices in terms of anti-doping? Well, that is very interesting because we are contacted, approached, regularly by organizers or authorities who regulate these new practices, who ask us how they can join the anti-doping community. So this is reassuring, to be sure, because it shows that these new trends, they're perfectly legitimate and they're extremely interesting from a sociological and sports point of view. But these new tendencies or trends are aware of the importance of practicing a clean sport. Now sometimes, in terms of the actual structures, it can be complicated, because some of these movements have come to us to say we want to have rules, but we don't know how to define an athlete, because we have no competitions. These are people who practice these things, but we advise them to try to set up a number of measures so that the sporting integrity can be maintained. But I don't think that these are irreconcilable. I think the fact that certain tendencies and trends in sports are developing and emerging mean that at some point when they are more developed, they are without a doubt going to approach the anti-doping community even more. Saying that we would like to set up some bridges, some links that we can continue to practice these sports. Are there any other difficulties or threats against the doping fight, I'm talking, I'm thinking of the betting of the criminal organizations, what are the effects on anti-doping? Well, today, this is not the WADA that says so but those who are, but law enforcement in certain countries, the law enforcement side is telling us today that the emergence of criminal organizations in the world of sports is a matter of serious concern. Because it is often the same criminal organizations which are making profits, of course, on the bets, but also turning a profit by providing illegal substances and methods to athletes. The difficulty in the fight against doping is that in a number of countries, some substances that are fairly significant are not criminalized, are not sanctioned criminally. So for a criminal organizations which wants to generate profits with a minimum level of risk, doping and supplying the substances or methods to athletes, whether they are elite athletes or in other areas, is something that they are looking closely at and doing. This is why we work increasingly with the police, we have a partnership with Interpol that has been going on for a number of years to try to act upstream of the doping situation, thanks to an exchange of information in networks which involve supplying doping. Can you identify any major progress that needs to be done in the future? Well what remains to do is enormous. The fight against doping today has achieved incredible progress in very little time. 15 years, in fact. It has become more professional, it has become more structured. Incredibly, if you look at it objectively however, an enormous amount remains to be done. One of the major challenges, among the numerous challenges we're going to face, but one of the major challenges from a purely sporting point of view is to move towards quality. We have to increase quality levels. We have a common, harmonized base in the community which is very encouraging, which is excellent, but if we want today to make the entire procedure, and I'm talking about the prevention to especially prevention. All sports, all countries must work closely in terms of improving the level of what they do. You can have all sorts of controls on an athlete, but if the right substance is not tested for a specific, for the right substance at the right time, you're throwing money out of the window. So this is where the 2015 code is going. Quality is the watch word. But aside from that, many other challenges remain. Many challenges are a part of society today. Today, anyone can Google the word steroid and find steroids on the Internet, and obtained them without any checks or controls, except in some countries where there are checks in terms of checks at the borders of the countries. There's a real challenge also in terms of this cat and mouse game. You will always have athletes who will try to avoid and circumvent rules. Sometimes they are advised by people on how to do this. Working on things like micro doses of the substances. So we're in this type of movement with our challenges that are going to be continued to emerge. And we're going to have to face down these challenges by coming up with solutions. I think the key today is to understand that doping will always be with us. It's human nature. We can put radar speed detectors on roads, but you're always going to find drivers who are going to try to drive faster than what is authorized. It's part of human nature and we're always going to have to face doping. But our role, our mission is to try ensure that we minimize doping as much as possible to ensure that a clean athlete can continue to obtain results that match their qualifications. Last question, if we think a little bit about the future, it's very difficult of course, what does WADA actually, what will it look like in ten years? Well, WADA in ten years will be fairly similar, I think, to what we are doing or what we have today but once again, there will be partnerships. We seek these partnerships in various areas. The fight against doping today cannot continue to work in isolation. We have realized this a number of years ago. So this is why we're trying to set up increasingly partnerships with areas such as the pharmaceutical side, by the biotechnological side, with the university side, the law enforcement, police in order to match and be in step with doping on the ground. So in ten years, WADA will be fairly similar in terms of its actual structure. The architecture of it is quite original, because we're made up and financed 50/50 by governments and by the sporting world under the aegis of the IOC. So around one table you have the sports ministers, you have presidents of international federations who are all on the same wavelength, all speaking the same language. This is an approach that has proven itself to be effective. However, in order to make even more progress, we're going to have to move in the direction of increased levels of quality. More partnerships and solutions that must be original in order to be in step with the doping problems. [MUSIC]
